Ashwin is a writer in the fiction-thriller genre. He is the author of best-selling novels The Rozabal Line, Chanakya’s Chant, The Krishna Key, The Sialkot Saga and Keepers of the Kalachakra. His books are based on mythological and theological themes. He is one of India's best-selling conspiracy fiction writers and is an author of the new era of retelling Indian history or mythology in a contemporary context. Forbes India has included him in their Celebrity 100 list.


Ashwin-Sanghi.jpg

Ashwin Sanghi

<h4>ASHWIN SANGHI is an Indian author in the intersecting genre of mythology,
 fiction and thriller. Here he is interviewed by RUDY SINGH at Kanha Shanti
 Vanam about his formative influences, what brought him to writing, and the gray area intersecting mythology and
 history. In Part 2, the conversation will also move to his own work and his latest books.</h4>
Q: Welcome to Kanha Shanti Vanam. What are your first impressions of this place?

AS: I&nbsp;am absolutely fascinated by my
 surroundings. Before I arrived here I didn’t know the scale of Kanha Shanti Vanam. It has been an incredible
 experience not just because of the infrastructure, which is obviously still coming up, but even what is there is
 world-class. More importantly, I think what is fascinating is just the amazing environment that you have
 created.
I am told that you have planted over 100,000 trees and plants in this place, which was
 barren land. That the water table is changing because of the number of reservoirs and the rainwater harvesting that
 is being done here. The fact that this place is energy self-sufficient because of the number of solar panels that
 are used. And of course the fact that there have been so many trees that have been translocated, or transplanted,
 here from other road-widening projects etc.
So when you add all of it up, it makes for a fascinating place. And then of course when
 you factor in Daaji and his vibrations, and the vibrations of all those people who happen to be here meditating,
 it’s a magical experience. So to sum up: it’s a magical place.
Q: Ashwin, I read that when you first started writing, you faced almost 40 rejections
 for your work, and then you decided to self-publish. Now most of us have a terrible time handling rejection. How
 did you handle that phase?
AS: Well, I think one of the problems in today’s
 world is that we don’t teach youngsters to cope with failure. And I think failure is a very important learning tool.
 And I think what we need to understand is how do we motivate ourselves to keep plodding on. When a child falls down
 while he is learning to walk, he doesn’t think, “Well, maybe this is not for me.” He just gets up and walks. He
 makes an attempt to walk and finally he learns how to walk. But we don’t do that in later life; we seem to get
 affected every time we fall down.
In front of my desk I had this bulletin board, which had a series of numbers: 12, 18,
 30, 34, 38, so on and so forth. When people would come to my study they would wonder what those numbers were.
Well, 12 was the number of times that the first book in the Harry Potter series
 by J.K. Rowling was rejected by publishers. 18 was the number of times that Jonathan Livingston Seagull was
 rejected. 30 was the number of times that the first novel by Stephen King, Carrie, was rejected. 34 was the
 number of times that Chicken Soup for the Soul was rejected. 38 was the number of times that Gone with
 the Wind was rejected.
So I used to psyche myself into believing that I would be a better author than all of
 them because I was getting rejected more. It’s almost a way of psyching yourself to plod on, and I think that is a
 very important skill that we need to be imparting to our youngsters.
<hr>
<h5 style="text-align: center;">I think failure is a very important learning tool. 
 And I think what we need to understand is how 
 do we motivate ourselves to keep plodding on.</h5>
<hr>
Q: That is wonderful. So your first book, The Rozabal Line, is based on the
 hypothesis that Jesus came to India and lived here after he survived the crucifixion. How did that topic come
 up? How did you decide to take that route?
AS: Actually I genuinely have come to believe that
 it’s the other way round. We, as writers or storytellers, think that we are going out searching for a story, but
 really stories come searching for us, because that story wants to be told.
I happened to be in Srinagar sometime around 2002, attending the wedding of a very dear
 friend. This was of course the time of peak militancy in Srinagar, so there were road blocks and military
 check-posts every few yards. I was feeling so completely cooped up in my hotel room and I told my driver, “You have
 to get me out of here and take me to some place.”
He said, “Well, I can take you to a very interesting tomb.”
<h5><img alt="where-history-intersects-with-myth-part-1" 
 class="lazyload has-img-center"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/history_intersects_myth2_b2586e4d84.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-06T07:16:42.021Z">
</h5>
So we landed up in the heart of Srinagar, the old part of Srinagar, known as the Khanyar
 district. And in the heart of this district there is a very unassuming structure. Records indicate that some
 structure has stood there ever since 124 AD. So something or other has been there on that spot for the last 2,000
 odd years. And the person buried there is a Muslim Pir, whose name was Nasiruddin. His was an Islamic burial site
 from around the 13th or 14th century, with the head pointing towards Mecca.
But there was another grave, which was of an older provenance, underneath that of
 Nasiruddin. It went back to the origin of the tomb, which was almost 500 years before the advent of Islam. And it
 was an east-west burial, which is the direction in which the ancient Jews buried their dead. Outside the tomb was a
 metallic plate, which showed the carving of human feet, with marks indicating the points at which the nails of a
 crucifixion would have been hammered.
I was completely blown away and fascinated by the story, and I spent the next two years
 researching that story, not because I wanted to write the book, but because I was obsessed with the story. At the
 end of two years, my wife told me, “Listen, it has become painful to have a conversation with you, because this is
 the only thing we talk about. You need to get this out of your system.” And that’s how I got the idea of writing a
 book. It never started out with the idea of writing a book.
Q: Wow. And in your books of course you use a lot of tales that are rooted in
 mythology. How much does that have to do with your upbringing?
AS: I grew up in an environment where we were
 surrounded by stories. I had my Daadi [paternal grandmother], who used to narrate stories to me from the Ramayana
 and Mahabharata. Then there was my Nana [maternal grandfather], who was a terrific storyteller, and he liberally
 would mix fact and fiction when narrating his stories, which made them even more interesting. His elder brother,
 whom we called Majle Nanaji, because he was the middle brother, had the habit of sending me a book every week to
 read. So at a very young age I was exposed to reading. And of course I had to read each book within a certain time
 frame and reply to him with a letter telling him what I’d read, and why I liked it or disliked it.
That entire habit of being surrounded by stories was very much there, as a result of
 which I think at heart I’m not a writer, I’m not a screenplay writer, I’m not a lyricist, I’m not a playwright, I’m
 just a storyteller, and that’s what I love doing. So even when I’m sitting having a conversation, I will find
 something the person will say that will inspire a story. And then I’m very quick to make a note of it, because I
 don’t want the idea to dissolve into thin air.
<hr>
<h5 style="text-align: center;">We, as writers or storytellers, 
 think that we are going out searching for a story, 
 but really stories come searching for us, 
 because that story wants to be told.</h5>
<hr>
And of course while all these meaningful books were coming from my maternal granduncle,
 there was also a set of books coming from my mother, and those were always paperbacks, thrillers – the latest
 Jeffery Archer, the latest Sidney Sheldon, the latest Irving Wallace, the latest Arthur Hailey. On the one hand I
 was getting all this philosophy, mythology, science, religion and theology coming to me from my grandparents, and
 then there was the style of a fast-paced novel coming to me from my mother. So a lot of what you see in my
 storytelling is a combination of those two streams of books.
Q: Do you think this style of writing has brought a new generation of readers to
 literature? A lot of people were disillusioned with the way history was written, and a lot of youngsters would
 find history a very boring subject.
AS: Yes of course. I grew up in a school where
 history was taught in an exceedingly boring fashion. The other part of it is that, to a very great extent, our
 history is just … It was the novelist George Santayana who said, “History is a pack of lies about events that never
 happened, written by people who were never there.” On the other hand, Churchill said, “History is always written by
 the victors.” So it’s a version of events.
<img alt="where-history-intersects-with-myth-part-1" class="lazyload has-img-center"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/history_intersects_myth3_c648c2b9fd.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-06T07:17:44.260Z">

The problem is, when you talk about history as a version of events, it means we should
 also be exposed to alternative versions of those events. For example, in India we learn about the Great Rebellion of
 1857, whereas the average English child learns about the Sepoy Mutiny of 1857 – the same event, but very, very
 different perspectives. To a certain extent I have no problem if you want to teach the so-called Aryan Migration
 theory or the Aryan Invasion theory, but also teach the Saraswati Civilization along with it, or the Out-of-India
 theory as an alternative hypothesis, because all of these are at their core precisely that – theories.
So my effort has basically been to correct the narrative, and hopefully as these
 alternative narratives emerge within popular culture, within popular fiction, then eventually researchers, scholars
 and historians will have to update their research and bring them into the academic mainstream.
<hr>
<h5 style="text-align: center;">I believe that there is that wonderful zone, 
 which is the overlap between history and myth.</h5>
<hr>
Q: It’s wonderful that you mention that, because within the Waldorf education system
 they actually start teaching children myths. They teach them the world of mythology and it’s only after Grade 5
 that they start them on history.
AS: And to a very great extent I believe that myths
 are far more honest. It was C.S. Lewis who said that a myth is imagination that reveals the truth. At least a myth
 doesn’t have pretensions of being a factual record. A myth does not attempt to be a statement of fact. And I believe
 that there is that wonderful zone, which is the overlap between history and myth.
To be continued.
<hr>
<h4 style="text-align: center;">Interview by RUDY SINGH</h4>
<hr>

Where history intersects with myth - part 1

<h4>ASHWIN SANGHI is an Indian author in the intersecting genre of mythology,
 fiction and thriller. In this second part of his interview with RUDY SINGH, he
 speaks about mythology, history, his approach to writing and his upcoming books. Ashwin continues the conversation
 from where he left off.</h4>
<hr class="vertical-space1">
AS:&nbsp;In India we always called our epics
 itihas [history]. The Ramayana and Mahabharata are itihas. It’s only since Max Müller that we were
 taught: Hey listen, this is myth, this is not historical narrative. I’m not willing to accept that. Take the
 Mahabharata. It started off with less than 25,000 verses of a work called Jaya, which morphed into a work of roughly
 50,000 verses called the Bharat, which then morphed into the 100,000 verses of the Mahabharat. We attribute all of
 this to one single writer, the Rishi Vyasa. I believe that’s almost like a nom de plume, a pseudonym, for
 multiple writers who wrote through the generations. But do you think multiple generations would have spent their
 time narrating that story if there wasn’t a kernel of truth to the events that happened?
We have 300 versions of the Ramayana, and each version is remarkably different. You have
 the Valmiki Ramayana, in which Ram is simply a human being, a mortal. You have the Tulsi Ramayana, in which he is
 elevated to the status of a God. You have versions like the Adbhuta Ramayana, in which it isn’t Ram who kills
 Ravana, but Sita who manifests as Durga. You have the Jain Ramayana, in which Lakshman kills Ravana. You have
 versions like the Muslim Ramayana, in which Ram is a Sultan, or the Lao Ramayana, in which Ram is a Bodhisattva. But
 at the core there are elements of the story that remain common throughout. And why would there be 300 versions of a
 story that never happened? So I believe what we need to do is to find that enticing, exciting overlap zone where
 history intersects with myth. And there is a lot we can gain by examining it closely. The problem is that mainstream
 academia has shied away from looking at these things. I have always believed that the reason why people like reading
 these stories, and the reason why this new generation is reading them, is because if you take these two words – myth
 and history – and put them into a particle collider and bring them charging at superfast speed towards one another,
 they fuse into a new word, which is myth + history = mystery. That’s typically what I try to do.
Q: Wow, that’s wonderful. As you mentioned, there are many, many local myths and
 different variations of myths. Every 200 kilometers you have a new myth; every district has their narrative. Do
 you think we are at a stage where there is a danger of the homogenous narrative subsuming all these? For
 example, the overarching Mahabharata is pan India, and the overarching Ramayana is pan India.
AS:&nbsp;The way I see it is that mythology has
 been in a constant state of flux. The packaging and repackaging of mythology has been happening over generations. We
 spoke about 300 versions of the Ramayana, and there are probably more than a 1,000 versions of the Mahabharata. And
 even if we look at today’s narratives, we are finding that actually the narratives do not depend on the popular
 mainstream.
If you take someone like Anand Neelakantan, for example, he is actually giving you a
 perspective of these epics from the angle of the so-called villains of the story, because he feels that injustice
 has been done to the villains. So why can’t we narrate the Mahabharata from the point of view of Duryodhana? Or why
 can’t we narrate the Ramayana from the point of view of Ravana?
You take someone like Chitra Banerjee Divakaruni. Chitra’s books narrate the stories
 from the angle of the female leads within those epics. What would the Ramayana look like from Sita’s perspective? Or
 what would the Mahabharata look like from Draupadi’s perspective?
So I think we are opening up new vistas in our narratives, which is wonderful because a
 myth should not be compartmentalized. The whole idea of myth is that you have multiple versions, and this has been
 the great thing about our country, that we’ve said that, “No, we don’t have one version of the truth; we can have
 three hundred versions. And the fact that I have one version of the truth doesn’t make your version any less. It’s
 still the truth.” And I think that is where we need to be going. And I think that that is already happening. So in
 fact we’ll see more narratives, we’ll see more dimensions. We’ll see this exploration increasing.
<img alt="" class="has-img-center lazyload"
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/history_myth_part2_2_9c1f110377.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-07T07:32:27.259Z">

Q: You’ve recently started writing a series of self-help books. How did the motivation
 for that come about?
AS:&nbsp;Well, I had just started writing. I was at
 the point where my first book was not getting published.&nbsp;There was a family friend of ours, who used to come
 home on the weekends and enjoy having a drink along with my father. One day, he saw I was very upset. 
 He saw me depressed and said, “What’s the matter?” 
 I said, “Well, 47 publishers have declined my book.” 
 Between publishers and literary agents it had become 47. 
 “What is the problem? Apply to a few more.” 
 And I said, “There’s no one left on the list. The universe has been targeted already.” 
 So he said, “Beta, remember one thing: in life 99% is about good luck.” 
 So I asked him, “But Uncle, what about the one percent? That must be hard work, talent, efficiency, networking,
 resources, management, so many things.” 
 He laughed at me. He said, “99% is about good luck, and one percent is about bloody good luck.” 
 And I came out of that meeting and I was wondering, “What is he talking about?”
Later on in life, once I had already become a bestselling author, someone asked me, “To
 what do you attribute your success?” and I said, “Luck!” And that was not the answer they were expecting. My
 publisher was standing next to me, and he started laughing. He said, “I think you need to write a book about it, to
 explain what is meant by luck. Demystify this topic.” And that resulted in the first book: 13 Steps to Bloody
 Good Luck.
At that time, it was not meant to be a series. It was meant to me a “one-off” book, the
 ramblings of Ashwin Sanghi about what makes lucky people lucky. As it turned out, then I started receiving e-mails
 from people saying, “If we can demystify luck, then why can’t we demystify something else?” So one of my school
 friends, who is also a venture capitalist, said, “People don’t know how to manage their money, so why don’t we write
 a book on wealth?” So we wrote 13 Steps to Bloody Good Wealth.
Then a teacher got in touch with me, who was an expert in coaching kids. And he said,
 “Why can’t we write 13 Steps to Bloody Good Marks, so that people can study better?” And then Dr. Batra got
 in touch saying, “Why can’t we write on health – 13 Steps to Bloody Good Health?” And we then had a book by
 a blogging mom, Kiran Manral, who wrote 13 Steps to Bloody Good Parenting. We now have someone who has been
 in the sales profession for 20 odd years writing a book on sales. Someone else is writing on communication. So there
 are so many things which look like rocket science, but they actually translate into some rather simple fundamentals.
 And that is what we’re attempting to present in a very easy to read format.
Q: I really liked the way you said “demystifying good luck,” because one of the
 objectives of the book, The Heartfulness Way, is to demystify meditation.
AS:&nbsp;Absolutely.
<img alt="where-history-intersects-with-myth-part-2" class="has-img-center lazyload "
 src="https://cdn-prod-static.heartfulness.org/history_myth_part2_3_3c0ee1213e.jpg?updated_at=2023-04-07T07:33:19.698Z">

Q: You have now been a part of two Heartfulness sessions. Do you think there’s a
 certain resonance with that also?
AS:&nbsp;Absolutely. I think one of the main
 attractions of the Heartfulness Way is the utter simplicity. I have been through several meditation sessions prior
 to this where the instructor is focused on how you sit, what mudras you do, your breathing and your
 concentration, the fact that you should not move, and the fact that you should develop an ability to deal with
 pleasure and pain, even though you’ve been sitting in that position for several hours.
In comparison, the Heartfulness Way is almost childlike: focus on your heart and
 feel rather than think. That is where true meditation comes from. I’m still to get there, but I love the
 utter childlike simplicity of what is explained in The Heartfulness Way.
<hr>
<h5 style="text-align: center;">The Heartfulness Way is almost childlike: 
 focus on your heart and feel rather than think. 
 That is where true meditation comes from. 
 I’m still to get there, but I love the utter childlike simplicity 
 of what is explained in The Heartfulness Way.
</h5>
<hr>
Q: Finally, what next for Ashwin Sanghi?
AS:&nbsp;Well, currently I’m working on a number of
 projects. In the 13 Steps series there are several books in the pipeline, and they will happen at the
 frequency of two or three titles per year. In addition to that, currently I’m working on the sixth book in the
 Bharat series.
The first book in the series was The Rozabal Line, followed by Chanakya’s
 Chant, then The Krishna Key, The Sialkot Saga, and Keepers of the Kalachakra. The sixth
 one turns its attention down South and talks about the Pallava kingdom. I hope to complete it soon, so that it is
 released in December or January. That is one of the main projects I am working on. In addition to that, I am also
 working on an original web series, as well as an adaptation of one of my books for the web. So at any given point of
 time I have multiple projects going on, and that’s one of the reasons why I need a technique to keep me a little
 more focused. I am hoping that Heartfulness can help me, because I have to keep switching tracks. On a particular
 day I’ll be working in the space of history and mythology; on another day I’m working on a crime thriller; on the
 third day I’m working on a self-help book. So in order to be able to change gears and still come back and focus on
 what I am required to focus on that particular day, that’s a critical element of what I do.
Q: Thank you so much. It’s been wonderful having you here.
AS:&nbsp;It’s been a pleasure talking to you. Thank
 you very much for having me here. What a delightful experience this has been. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

<a href="https://www.heartfulnessmagazine.com/where-history-intersects-with-myth-part-1/">Read Part 1 of the interview&gt;&gt;</a>
<hr>
<h4 style="text-align: center;">Interview by RUDY SINGH</h4>
<hr>

Ashwin Sanghi

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